[GNC] After November? "My 3 & 4 cents"

[Betty H. Zisk]

I am getting into this debate that you guys have going very late. I dont
plan to vote for Kerry and I agree with Gil. This after I supported Kerry in
many elections before the Greens were even on the horizon. Yes I gave money
and time to him.

Why are we even having this debate? I dislike David on style issues alone. I
cant stand Pat. I heard her on a debate on Maine NPR two days ago and was
ashamed frankly. I spent three days in Maine last week (and probably will
move there eventually) My contractors (one is a member of Green party; the
other is a self proclaimed independent--and I love them both) dont even ask
why I bother. I do because it is important. I cant convince them or anyone
else. I guess I will hold my nose as well and vote for David. He is pretty
dumb and has sothern acceent and style. So does George Bush. I ask myself
what is the difference. Maybe David wont destroy the world as we know it. So
I will vote for David I guess. Betts Yes I know we need ballot status. That
frankly is the only thing that keeps me going right now.

-----Original Message-----
From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
[mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org]On Behalf Of Mike Heichman
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:30 PM
To: Green National Convention; Mike Heichman
Subject: Re: [GNC] After November? "My 3 & 4 cents"


My three and four cents:

1. When we come to defining John Kerry, he is an excellent representative
for the "mainstream" establishment. He is a "wishy-washy" moderate/liberal.
When talking with supporters of Kucinich and Sharpton, we should be polite
but firm that, on the issues Kucinich and Sharpton are much closer to the
"Greens" (GRP) than to Kerry. (Note: Strategically speaking this is NOT true
and that is why there was no question that both would end up supporting the
Democratic candidate, even if he were Lieberman.)

2. I think that it is important for us to say this NOW and not later for two
reasons. We are in a campaign NOW and most of us, I believe, are trying to
persuade people to vote for Cobb (That's true for me 3 days of the week.)
No matter who is elected president in November, we should continue to say
this to Kucinich and Shaprton supporters, as well as everyone else. What we
should NOT say "6" months after the inauguaration, if Kerry is elected
president, is that Kerry betrayed the "progressive agenda", because he is
NOT running on a progressive agenda. Right now, and throughout most of the
primary season, except for when he felt desperate, he has been running a
"Bush-lite" campaign, and that is the campaign that he would prefer to run
and will run, unless he feels that he has no choice but to "appease" his
"liberal" base.

3. My problem is that it is very hard for me to enthusiastically call on
people to vote for Cobb-LaMarche. That does no surprise me. When I first
heard him at the Cambridge debate (with Kent and Lorna) back in February, I
thought that he had the best political skills. However, it was
"nuanced"/"safe-state" strategy that I could not swallow then and I can not
swallow now.

    In front of me, I have a one-page piece of campaign literature by
Cobb-LaMarche. The list of issues is fine. It's the bottom of the page where
it says, "The Cobb/LaMarche tickets plans to run a strong, aggressive and
strategically smart presidential campaign in 2004 that builds our party at
the local, state and national levels and which culminates with Bush out of
the White House."

    The problems that I have with this are the following:

1. I disagree with the strategy. I think that both major parties and their
candidates are the "War Party"--both are waging war against the planet
"ecology" (Help: How do I say this better?), against the peoples of the
world, and against the majority of the people of this country. We should be
very clear that we are an alternative party--one that offers a different
choice for the people of this country.

2. Let's say that this strategy is successful and that John Kerry is elected
president in November. I do NOT want to be a member of a political party
that takes credit or is given credit for this "victory".

3. In order for this strategy to be successful, Cobb/LaMarche have to
continue to send out mixed and confusing messages to members of our party
and to the public. In order for this strategy to be successful, in some
states our target audience is supposed to vote for Kerry.

4. My major problem with this strategy is that it is intellectually,
politically and morally dishonest and therefore corrupt. What happens if ONE
too many people in ONE state votes for Cobb/LaMarche (a repeat of the 2000
election)--imagine that Pat LaMarche votes for HERSELF and Bush carries
Maine (and the electoral college by ONE vote), what do we say on "November
3"? How about "Whoops!", "Sorry about that", "We'll try to run a "smarter"
campaign in 2008?", "Don't blame us-blame Nader.", etc. (Your choice. Let's
have a contest. Who can come up with the best quote?)

    The ONLY "safe-state" strategy is to stop the campaign (and ask everyone
to vote for Kerry?). Nothing else is "safe"! Any other argument that I can
think of is dishonest.

    That's why I supported Kent Mesplay. He wanted the Green Party to wage
the best possible "run to win" campaign in all "51" states. But he lost and
Cobb won. That's why I want to support Cobb, but it is very hard.

-----------------------------------
    I apologize if anyone is insulted by my thoughts. I know that there is a
better argument for the "safe-state" strategy, and if you agree with it,
that's OK with me.

    What I'm sharing is my own agonized thinking. I can't support Nader. At
least Cobb is trying to build the Green Party and has communicated a
strategic approach to this election. I don't know what Nader has been trying
to do (support Kucinich early in the race, push Kerry to the left, etc.).
Sometimes I think that I will vote for the Socialist Party--it has excellent
politics and they are running a campaign that is providing a clear
alternative (and by November 2, 99% of the people will never have heard of
them).

    As of now, I'm holding my nose and voting for Cobb/LaMarche and hoping
that the GRP gets 3% of the vote (and that other Green Paries will gain or
maintain their ballot access. And I hope that when the election will be over
is November, the Green Party will not be either blamed or given credit for
the results. And that, my friends, feels like a pretty shitty reason to vote
for the Greens and a pretty shitty thing to hope for.

    What do others think?



on 8/5/04 10:14 AM, David Rolde at davidrolde at comcast.net wrote:

> I know Kucinich supporters who already changed their registration
> from Dem to GRP this spring when it became clear that Kerry was going
> to win the nomination.
>
> Also my opinion is that a vote for Kerry is a wasted vote even in a
> so-called swing state as Kerry is not a good alternative to Bush.
>
> - David
>
> At 9:16 AM -0400 8/5/04, Gil Obler wrote:
>>> I have personally been urging Sharpton and Kucinich
>>> supporters I know to consider Cobb.
>>
>> I was NOT suggesting that we avoid doing this as individuals between
>> now and November.
>>
>> I also was NOT suggesting that we, as a party, avoid asking them to
>> vote for Cobb.
>>
>> Voting for Kerry in Massachusetts, aside from the problems one might
>> have with him as a candidate, is simply a wasted vote (i.e., it will
>> not add to his electoral college count).
>>
>> I WAS suggesting we wait until next year for a concerted programmatic
>> attempt to woo Kucinich/Sharpton Dems into our party.
>>
>> There is a difference between voting for Cobb and joining the party.
>>
>> I WAS suggesting that, while some Kucinich/Sharpton supporters may
>> be ready to consider voting Cobb, getting them to register with the
>> Green-Rainbow may be premature.
>>
>> Gil Obler
>> GRP Alternate (MA), USGP Coordinating Committee
>> Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party State Committee
>>
>>
>> ======================================================================
>> email                                             greengil at comcast.net
>> home phone                                               (978)455-3984
>> cell phone                                               (617)388-5445
>> ======================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
>>> [mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org] On Behalf Of Owen Broadhurst
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:02 AM
>>> To: Green National Convention
>>> Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>>>
>>>
>>> No, he's CAMPAIGNING for office and betraying the progressive agenda.
>>>
>>> By no means have I qualms in urging all Massachusetts voters
>>> to reject him. His DNC speeches and, indeed, his whole entire
>>> legislative record, show him an exceptionally dangerous
>>> threat to the whole entire globe and most Americans.
>>>
>>> I have personally been urging Sharpton and Kucinich
>>> supporters I know to consider Cobb.
>>>
>>> OB
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gil Obler" <greengil at comcast.net>
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:30:51 -0400
>>> To: "'Green National Convention'" <gnc at green-rainbow.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>>>
>>> Re:
>>> Re: My two cents:
>>> Re:
>>> Re: What is wrong with now is that Kerry is not yet in office and
>>> Re: betraying the progressive agenda.
>>> Re:
>>> Re: I suggest: not now, not in November, but in Spring/Summer 2005
>>> Re: after Kerry turns corporate with his agenda.
>>> Re:
>>> Re: Right now, Kerry is playing the politicians game and saying
>>> Re: enough of the "right things" not to convince us Greens (and
>>> Re: Green-Rainbows) but to convince the Kucinich Dems that he is
>>> Re: "secretly a progressive".
>>> Re:
>>> Re: We need to be smart, show a little patience, and not overplay
>>> Re: our hand too early.
>>> Re:
>>> Re:                Gil Obler
>>> Re:                GRP Alternate (MA), USGP Coordinating Committee
>>> Re:                Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party
>>> State Committee
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GNC mailing list
>>> GNC at green-rainbow.org
>>> http://www.green-> rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/gnc
>>>
>>
>>
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