[GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
David Rolde
davidrolde at comcast.net
Fri Aug 6 12:42:56 EDT 2004
I think it is offensive or even racist to criticize people because of
their regional accents or based on regional/cultural stereotypes. I
think criticizing people as being stupid can also be problematic.
Better to say "Person X said something stupid" rather than "Person X
is stupid".
I don't agree that David Cobb is stupid or even says many stupid
things. I think he is quite intelligent and even presents his ideas
to appear intelligent. I do disagree with David Cobb about quite a
few issues - I think he is wrong about some things - but he does
present his views intelligently. And I agree with David Cobb about
more things than I disagree with him about. If I vote for David Cobb
in November it will be because I think he would be a good president.
Today I'm leaning towards voting for Cobb/LaMarche, but I guess I
don't have to make a final decision until November 2. I recognize
that no candidate will ever be perfect, but I refuse to "hold my
nose" and vote for a truly bad candidate.
As to Pat LaMarche being "an airhead", I sympathize with this opinion
as I have not been positively impressed by anything I have heard Pat
say so far. But I don't actually agree that she is an airhead. I
assume that Pat LaMarche is a capable and intelligent person who just
is not suited for the role of Green vice presidential candidate or
who sees this role differently than I do. She could still surprise
us and start speaking out forcefully for Green issues and against the
current US government. And in any case she might be good as vice
president if Cobb/LaMarche win the election even if she isn't good at
campaigning. I didn't hear Pat on NPR.
- David Rolde
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From: "Betty H. Zisk" <zisk at bu.edu>
To: "Green National Convention" <gnc at green-rainbow.org>
Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? "My 3 & 4 cents"
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:08:42 -0400
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I am getting into this debate that you guys have going very late. I dont
plan to vote for Kerry and I agree with Gil. This after I supported Kerry in
many elections before the Greens were even on the horizon. Yes I gave money
and time to him.
Why are we even having this debate? I dislike David on style issues alone. I
cant stand Pat. I heard her on a debate on Maine NPR two days ago and was
ashamed frankly. I spent three days in Maine last week (and probably will
move there eventually) My contractors (one is a member of Green party; the
other is a self proclaimed independent--and I love them both) dont even ask
why I bother. I do because it is important. I cant convince them or anyone
else. I guess I will hold my nose as well and vote for David. He is pretty
dumb and has sothern acceent and style. So does George Bush. I ask myself
what is the difference. Maybe David wont destroy the world as we know it. So
I will vote for David I guess. Betts Yes I know we need ballot status. That
frankly is the only thing that keeps me going right now.
At 10:58 AM -0400 8/6/04, Betty H. Zisk wrote:
>I want to express my absolte dismay at the Miller/Forrest article. As some
>of you know I waivered in my uncommitted role--followed my heart at the
>first forced vote of MA delegatin and voted for Lorna. Then climbed on Nader
>bandwagon but it was too late and too little and too dishonest. That said
>(sigh) I support the Cobb ticket despite all the warts. If I had my drothers
>I would sit it out. But I am a loyal Green to the end. I am outraged by the
>innuendo that Miller and Forrest spout. Gil, i have family commitments that
>I cant escape--but what can I do for you on Grace's cleanup? I came into
>this debate late. I still want to go back to Maine with my head held high. I
>have known Carol Miller for some years--never expected this of her. I have
>known Lorna forever. She remains silent on this I hope. We need to remain
>Greens and Rainbows. We dont need this stupid and vitioloc hassle. Please
>help me and all of us to get it behind us. Betts (I am willing to stand out
>in the rain as I have done for Nader and now for Cobb but I cant defend us
>on this issue unless I find support among fellow Greens. Pat is a total
>airhead; David isnt much better. Should I just defend our platform? Or what?
>BZ)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
>[mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org]On Behalf Of Gil Obler
>Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:09 PM
>To: 'Green National Convention'
>Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>
>
>
>Please DO NOT take my previous reply as a slam on David Rolde and
>Owen Broadhurst.
>
>Both of them are people who have consistently shown up and sacrificed
>for the party and the movement. They are not part of the problem. They
>are part of the solution.
>
>However, I am frustrated by a lack of recognition of where we really
>are as an organization and what it will take to get somewhere else.
>
>It is my personal opinion that when we have more people chipping in
>to help Steve Milder and I clean Grace's house for the Zitola/Johnson
>fundraiser than formulating foreign policy in the Sudan we will be a
>lot closer to those goals (EVEN in the Sudan).
>
> Gil Obler
> GRP Alternate (MA), USGP Coordinating Committee
> Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party State Committee
>
>
>======================================================================
>email greengil at comcast.net
>home phone (978)455-3984
>cell phone (617)388-5445
>======================================================================
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
>> [mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org] On Behalf Of Gil Obler
>> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:33 PM
>> To: 'Green National Convention'
>> Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>>
>>
>>
>> > Also my opinion is that a vote for Kerry is a wasted vote even in a
>> > so-called swing state as Kerry is not a good alternative to Bush.
>>
>> Do we live in a swing state?
>>
>> This is what I mean about armchair radicals living in
>> cyberspace.
>>
>> We live in Massachusetts.
>>
>> How about we work on our party here in Massachusetts instead of
>> worrying so much about what happens in other states? Do Greens
>> in Illinois and Miochigan waste time telling us what to do here
>> in Massachusetts?
>>
>> Do I wish we were committed and organized enough to present
>> a viable threat to Kerry and Bush in Massachusetss in this
>> election? YES. Do I think we are? NO.
>>
>> We cannot even get more than a handful of state committee
>> members to commit to $10/month for the party (I will be
>> presenting a plan for a 10&10 program [$10 and 10 hours per
>> month] to the fundraising committee shortly).
>>
>> We cannot even get more that 20-30 people to show up at the
>> GRP-sponsored rallies at the DNC. We cannot get more than
>> a handful of people to volunteer consistently for Rich, Nat,
>> Jill, Carolina, Ebony, and others.
>>
>> When we have 50,000 members, 10,000 10&10 activists, 1,000
>> volunteers showing up at rallies, picket lines, and campaign
>> activities, then we will be a viable alternative. When we
> > have a state committee that can meet without struggling for
>> a quorum at every meeting, when 20% are not active on a
>> working committee rather than 20% that are active.
>>
>> I eagerly await such a day.
>>
>> Gil Obler
>> GRP Alternate (MA), USGP Coordinating Committee
>> Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party State Committee
>>
>>
>> ======================================================================
>> email greengil at comcast.net
>> home phone (978)455-3984
>> cell phone (617)388-5445
>> ======================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
>> > [mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org] On Behalf Of David Rolde
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:15 AM
>> > To: Green National Convention
>> > Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>> >
>> >
>> > I know Kucinich supporters who already changed their registration
>> > from Dem to GRP this spring when it became clear that Kerry
>> was going
>> > to win the nomination.
>> >
>> > Also my opinion is that a vote for Kerry is a wasted vote even in a
>> > so-called swing state as Kerry is not a good alternative to Bush.>
>> > - David
>> >
>> > At 9:16 AM -0400 8/5/04, Gil Obler wrote:
>> > > > I have personally been urging Sharpton and Kucinich
>> > >> supporters I know to consider Cobb.
>> > >
>> > >I was NOT suggesting that we avoid doing this as
>> individuals between
>> > >now and November.
>> > >
>> > >I also was NOT suggesting that we, as a party, avoid asking them to
>> > >vote for Cobb.
>> > >
>> > >Voting for Kerry in Massachusetts, aside from the problems
>> one might
>> > >have with him as a candidate, is simply a wasted vote
>> (i.e., it will
>> > >not add to his electoral college count).
>> > >
>> > >I WAS suggesting we wait until next year for a concerted
>> > programmatic
>> > >attempt to woo Kucinich/Sharpton Dems into our party.
>> > >
>> > >There is a difference between voting for Cobb and joining
>> the party.
>> > >
>> > >I WAS suggesting that, while some Kucinich/Sharpton
>> > supporters may be
>> > >ready to consider voting Cobb, getting them to register with the
>> > >Green-Rainbow may be premature.
>> > >
>> > > Gil Obler
>> > > GRP Alternate (MA), USGP Coordinating Committee
>> > > Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party
>> > State Committee
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >=============================================================
>> > =========
>> > >email
>> > greengil at comcast.net
>> > >home phone
>> > (978)455-3984
>> > >cell phone
>> > (617)388-5445
>> > >=============================================================
>> > =========
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org
>> > >> [mailto:gnc-bounces at green-rainbow.org] On Behalf Of Owen
>> Broadhurst
>> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:02 AM
>> > >> To: Green National Convention
>> > >> Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> No, he's CAMPAIGNING for office and betraying the progressive
>> > >> agenda.
>> > >>
>> > >> By no means have I qualms in urging all Massachusetts voters to
>> > >> reject him. His DNC speeches and, indeed, his whole entire
>> > >> legislative record, show him an exceptionally dangerous
>> > > > threat to the whole entire globe and most Americans.
>> > > >
>> > > > I have personally been urging Sharpton and Kucinich
>> > > > supporters I know to consider Cobb.
>> > >>
>> > >> OB
>> > >>
>> > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> From: "Gil Obler" <greengil at comcast.net>
>> > >> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 08:30:51 -0400
>> > >> To: "'Green National Convention'" <gnc at green-rainbow.org>
>> > >> Subject: RE: [GNC] After November? What's wrong with now?
>> > >>
>> > >> Re:
>> > >> Re: My two cents:
>> > >> Re:
>> > >> Re: What is wrong with now is that Kerry is not yet
>> > in office and
>> > >> Re: betraying the progressive agenda.
>> > >> Re:
> > > >> Re: I suggest: not now, not in November, but in
>> > Spring/Summer 2005
>> > >> Re: after Kerry turns corporate with his agenda.
>> > >> Re:
>> > >> Re: Right now, Kerry is playing the politicians
>> > game and saying
>> > >> Re: enough of the "right things" not to convince us
>> > Greens (and
>> > >> Re: Green-Rainbows) but to convince the Kucinich
>> > Dems that he is
>> > >> Re: "secretly a progressive".
>> > >> Re:
>> > >> Re: We need to be smart, show a little patience,
>> > and not overplay
>> > >> Re: our hand too early.
>> > >> Re:
>> > >> Re: Gil Obler
>> > >> Re: GRP Alternate (MA), USGP
>> Coordinating Committee
>> > >> Re: Middlesex Delegate, Green-Rainbow Party
>> > >> State Committee _______________________________________________
>> > >> GNC mailing list
>> > >> GNC at green-rainbow.org
>> > >> http://www.green-> rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/gnc
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >GNC mailing list
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GNC mailing list
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>> >
>>
>>
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