[Platform] DemoGreens
Betty H. Zisk
zisk at bu.edu
Tue Apr 8 10:34:29 EDT 2008
John please forgive me if there are misunderstandings. I didnt call you a
McCarthyite. I simply alluded to idea that you of all people shldnt use the
argument of guilt by assoc having lived thru that awful era. I was very
lucky then because I worked for the Friends Comm on National Legislation and
didnt fear job loss and was low on radar screen. And of course earned a
below living wage as a result. And tried very hard to get Quakers alerted to
dangers re HUAC and the like. But my dad did sign the Calif loyalty oath
reluctantly as UCLA professor; many of my friends feared for their jobs; it
was a time when we were all open to those fears and we all guarded our
words. My allusion to McC today comes from your loose use of that awful term
DemoGreens.
You and I disagree on Obama. I am sorry about that. I also wish very
strongly that there were a viable Green candidate running. I think of Medea
Benjami in this regard. And Mindy Lorenz who ran a very respectable campaign
in Calif for US Congress early on in late 80s I think. I have tremendous
faith in Greens and in GRP in long run. I have alas enough past experience
with Nader (I was on national steering committee in 2000) to realize that he
isnt a Green by any stretch of imagination. We used him; he used us. At this
pt I say anyone but Bush. I also say lets reform the pol system in a basic
way. I dont want to vote for Hillary and hope it wont come to that awful
choice. Betts (with respect for yr views)
-----Original Message-----
From: John Walsh [mailto:john.walsh at umassmed.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:37 AM
To: Betty H. Zisk
Cc: Mike Heichman; Merelice; Cdlc; Platform Committee;
NeedToKnow at green-rainbow.org; State Com
Subject: DemoGreens
Hi Betty,
Nice to hear from you.
First of all, let us cut out the charge of McCarthyism. The hallmark of
McCarthyism was stifling dissent. And those who are trying to prevent me
from speaking by calling me a McCarthyite or a Stalinist are the true heirs
of McCarthy. And I do not need any lecturing on this since I lost one job
for my stand against racism and it nearly cost me my present one. So
DemoGreen I submit is not nearly as bad as what you have implied by
McCarthyism and I would ask you (and others) to cease and desist. I too am
averse to labels - like being labelled a McCarthyite which is kind of nasty.
Almost a year ago in a debate on CounterPunch I defended the GPUS, but my
experiences with the national party have convinced me I was wrong. I saw up
close the incompetence, dysfunctionality and non-functionality of the GPUS.
It is now a corpse. BUT some state parties - NY, MA, CA certainly have a lot
going for them and I intend to stick with the GRP. Hopefully these parties
will find themselves part of a new grouping as a result of the
Nader/Gonzalez '08 run. (Nader/Gonzalez already have 6% of the vote in a
Zogby poll to McCain's 44% and HRC (or Obama's) 39%. So the Dems better get
cracking and change their position if they want to pick up any of that 6%.)
I am sorry but there are DemoGreens. I define them as supporting Dems in
the end and attacking serious Green candidates at the national level -
especially at the presidential level. Some are genuine in their beliefs and
some are Dem operatives. They show up in the safe states strategy and/or in
a nasty, mindless anti-Naderism.
Now about Obama. I am careful about the words I use here. He is a mass
murderer. Since being in the Senate he has voted for every appropriation for
the Iraq war - period. That was hundreds of billions of dollars to kill
hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Yes, he SAYS he WAS against the war - but
as soon as he had a vote, he voted for it. I judge people by their actions,
and by his actions he is as prowar as Hillary or McCain. He also voted to
re-authorize the patriot act. And he is also calling for expanding the
military by 100,000 - exactly the same as HRC and McCain! (There are other
things also, such as his hostility to single payer, matching Hillary's but
sharper than hers, closer to McCain in this regard.)
So I am sorry Betty, but a vote for Obama is a vote for a mass murderer.
And if you vote for a prowar candidate, then I am afraid you are prowar by
virtue of what you do, despite what you say. That makes you complicit in the
war in my opinion. So I will work for and vote for Nader/Gonzalez. To do
otherwise is not only bad politics, it is highly immoral. Sorry but that is
my opinion - it is very simple.
Best,
John Walsh
On Apr 7, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Betty H. Zisk wrote:
John: I am growing increasingly concerned by your use of such terms as
"DemoGreens" because honestly I dont know to which grp you are referring. I
spent four days last weekend with a number of Green Party Activists on an
oral history project that was long planned. This was convened by Mike
Feinstein of CA; it included John Rensenbrink (Maine; founder of Maine Green
Party in 1984); Dee Berry (maintainer of Green Clearinghouse that was vital
to all of us); Howie Hawkins (organizer for many of us; leader of Left
Greens and GPUSA during the battle over who would take charge; he lost; he
was on receiving end of much recrimination this weekend); Charlene Spretrak
and Danny Moses who participated via telephone and speakers. Others were
invivted but cldnt come: Greg Gerritt and Tony Affigne for example. It was
an invigorating and passionate long weekend. We didnt discuss current
politics at all; we were so focussed on the first twenty years of our party
history and didnt want to lose that history. My pt here however is that I
havent heard of any plot to take over the Greens. I have talked with John R
at length about the fact of his sending a letter to both Nader and Cynthia
urging both of them to run for Green nomination. (John and I live only forty
miles apart when we are in Maine coast. In addition I have invited him to my
movements seminar at BU every year to talk about Green Party; that I think
has been at least ten years.) If you are referring to the brief period when
we nominated David Cobb and the idea of a stafe state strategy please say
so. I didnt go along with Safe State strategy and frankly I dislike David
Cobb for so many reasons most of which are unprintable. But again my point
is that your use of that term Demogreens is misleading. I wish you could
take the trouble to define it. I have been called a traitor in so many ways
in this campaign. Mostly from Dem Friends who support Hillary. But also from
my dear friends in GRP who dont want me supporting Obama (I do). We can save
that argument for another day. Am I a demigreen. No. I have been active in
Green Party for more years than you have I bet. I am adverse to labels. You
should understand that as well since I have a huhch you were prseent in
McCarthy era as well. Please foregive typos. Betts Zisk
-----Original Message-----
From: John Walsh [mailto:john.walsh at umassmed.edu]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:23 PM
To: Mike Heichman
Cc: Merelice; Cdlc; Betty H. Zisk; Platform Committee;
NeedToKnow at green-rainbow.org; State Com
Subject: Re: [Platform] BALLOT INITIATIVES UPDATE. Consider putting
them to workin your community! Join the ABWG.
Mike,
There is a candidate running in Worcester for STATE Senate as you
should know.
Unfortunately he seems to be willing to pull his punches when it comes
to the Dems. He may be taking his signal from our gubernatorial candidate
last time who pulled her punches with Deval Patrick and ended up with a
minuscule portion of the vote. Without the GRP platform her fate would have
been even worse. Thank goodness we had a good candidate for secretary of
state who got enough votes to preserve our ballot status.
That is what I was referencing.
If you want to see how to give to the Dems (by telling the unvarnished
truth), go to VoteNader.org. You might want to sit down since resorting to
the truth is shocking in some quarters/
Nader will of course have the majority of the MA votes on the first
ballot at the convention. As you know, he did splendidly here despite not
campaigning and despite the brilliant campaign run by our last gubernatorial
candidate on behalf of Cynthia McKinney.
john walsh
p.s. I have heard some whispers that Cynthia is growing concerned that
she is being used by the DemoGreens in the GPUSA. Just gossip of course. But
if she concludes this, watch out. She is a woman who does not mince her
words or hold back the truth - unlike some folks we know.
On Apr 7, 2008, at 8:01 PM, Mike Heichman wrote:
Hi John,
What candidates are you referring?
If there were a significant number of GRP members running this year
for the US Senate, Congress or the state legislature, I would not have
submitted this proposal.
If we had enough time and strength, putting a question on the
statewide ballot might be a good idea. However, we don't have the time nor
the strength.
Given the above, I believe that the advisory questions can be a
significant electoral campaign for our party this year in conjunction with
our support for the Green Party's presidential ticket.
Mike Heichman
John Walsh wrote:
Hi Merelice,
I am with Betts on this one.
These non-binding ballot questions elicit a collective yawn from
the general populace and disdain on the part of the Dems. The only folks who
might pay even a smidgen of attention to them are already well informed of
what the GRP stands for.
So I submit it is really a giant waste of time in an election year
when there will be much to do - like exposing Obama for the fake he is and
working for our own candidates.
john walsh
On Apr 7, 2008, at 12:51 PM, Merelice wrote:
Hello Betts and all,
We are too late for "serious" statewide
(massive-signature-gathering)
ballot questions. We would need to plan much farther ahead (and
we
should).
There's still a slight possibility there will be local
candidates
running for office (apart from president) and that would be an
organizing opportunity. In the absence of such, however, some
folks
feel that selecting local advisory questions is another way to
get
Party members being visible on real issues that matter. It's
also
something that a presidential candidate can tie into when
campaigning
in the state.
At the moment, ask the usual voter what the Green/Green-Rainbow
Party
stands for and it is largely personality politics. Working in
concert
on defined issues -- with ballot questions being just one
element of
the work -- could begin to make it clear what the GRP stands
for.
Merelice
On 4/6/08, Betty H. Zisk <zisk at bu.edu> wrote:
I support all four of these ballot proposals. My only question
is whether
they are strictly advisory questions or whhether they are
serious ballot
proposals for which we would need to gather signatures. If
they are just
advis questions I am not really interested. I am happy to work
hard on
health care including signature gathering. Or any other
serious proposal.
Not happy to work on advis question. Betts Zisk (For yr info I
wrote a whole
book on ballot questions in four states including MA. I have
never taken
advisory questions seriously. But I am not clear on language
here. I
volunteer wholeheartedly if they are binding questions.) B
-----Original Message-----
From: platform-bounces at green-rainbow.org
[mailto:platform-bounces at green-rainbow.org]On Behalf Of Jill
Stein
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:53 PM
To: platform at green-rainbow.org; State Com; Cdlc
Subject: [Platform] BALLOT INITIATIVES UPDATE. Consider
putting them to
workin your community! Join the ABWG.
Importance: High
Dear Platform, CDLC, Locals, GRPers et al,
This is to update folks on the status of the local ballot
question
initiatives, which State Com voted to explore at the last
meeting. The
proposal suggested considering what ballot questions would
have a base
of support that would make them successful and enhance our
presence in
existing issue-oriented networks. Several volunteers, partly
based in
subcommittees of Platform, have been exploring this and have
reported
exciting progress on four possible initiatives, some of which
is
described below. The proposed initiatives thus far (that I'm
aware of)
are: Secure Green Future (Green Jobs and Fossil Fuel
Phase-Out), Health
Care, Housing Foreclosures, IRV. (Note, you'll have to scroll
to the
bottom of the discussion below to get to the health care
proposal.)
Platform is also asked in the State Com ballot initiative
proposal to
establish an Advisory Ballot Working Group, (ABWG). We
encourage anyone
who is, or would like to commit to working on ballot
initiatives, to
consider volunteering for the ABWG. Members of locals who are
interested
in using one or more initiatives to do issue-based organizing
in their
communities are especially encouraged to join. One of ABWG's
tasks is to
consider how many such initiatives can be supported by the
Party, what
resources are available to do so, and what districts would be
most
productive to target.
We'll consider where the various initiatives stand at our next
full
platform phone meeting, (TBA). If you are interested in
participating in
the ABWG, please let me know and we'll keep you posted on
upcoming
meetings.
Thx.
jill
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John V. Walsh, MD
Professor of Physiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
55 Lake Avenue, N.
Worcester, MA, 01655-0127
Phone (work): 508-856-3360
Phone (cell): 508-868-1653
email: john.walsh at umassmed.edu
_______________________________________________
Platform mailing list
Platform at green-rainbow.org
http://www.green-rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/platform
John V. Walsh, MD
Professor of Physiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
508-856-3360 (Office)
508-868-1653 (Cell)
john.walsh at umassmed.edu
John V. Walsh, MD
Professor of Physiology
University of Massachusetts Medical School
508-856-3360 (Office)
508-868-1653 (Cell)
john.walsh at umassmed.edu
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