[statecom-discuss] Working with other political parties - open thread

Fri Nov 10 11:16:30 EST 2006

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jw

On 11/10/06, Adam Sacks <adam_artist at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Supporting public education?  Perhaps, because everyone is entitled to tools and knowledge for somehow getting along.  But attached is another view - well worth reading - of what public education in this country is really about.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Adam
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Walsh <jvwalshmd at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion List for StateCom members <statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:14:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [statecom-discuss] Working with other political parties - open thread
>
> First, I believe that you should read Antiwar.com - and The American
> Conservative.  I think you will agree at least as often as you
> disagree with the latter.
> Second, one of the main planks of the Libertarian platform is to END
> CORPORATE WELFARE.
> Third, let us draw up the list: No war, no empire, troops home, close
> foreign bases, downsize the military industries, no police state laws,
> no domestic spy agencies, no corporate welfare.  We both agree on
> those but the Dems (and Republicans) do not.
> Finally, I am confident that if we settle those issues, then we can
> argue about things like single-payer health care (which by the way is
> a non-statist solution, the more statist solution being a national
> health service like the NHS in UK or the VA here).  I am confident
> that on these issues Greens will win.  But that does not mean we give
> up a valuable ally in the struggle of the moment.  Valuable in that
> they work from an ideology which appeals at this point to many
> Americans.
> jw
> p.s. The first woman to serve in Congresss was a Republican,
> essentially a Libertarian though.  She voted against entry of the US
> into WWI.  Both genuine Right and genuine Left were antiwar in those
> days.
>
> On 11/9/06, Mike Heichman <mikeheichman at verizon.net> wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > At this stage in history, what would happen if "government would wither
> > away"?
> >
> > The real rulers of the planet are the very wealthy few, especially those
> > who rule our nation.
> >
> > My understanding (admittedly superficial) is that the libertarians are
> > for limited government in the political sense of the word. I am unaware
> > of anyway that they support controls over the corporations and the
> > wealthy elite.
> >
> > My guess is that we both support public education. What would happen to
> > our children if the libertarians got their way and the government would
> > no longer have this function? Where is the common ground?
> >
> > I believe that most people in the GRP oppose the multiple systems of
> > white, male, rich supremacy as well as the war on our ecosystem. Isn't
> > this also the empire that we oppose? Where is the common ground  with
> > the  Libertarians?
> >
> > Yes, there is common ground in important areas where we can better work
> > together. However, there are fundamental differences that I do not
> > believe are secondary to the vision of our party.
> >
> > Mike Heichman
> >
> >
> >
> > John Walsh wrote:
> >
> > > Empire?  You know it when you see it.
> > > At least the Libertarians, the genuine ones, are against war and
> > > empire.  Imagine if we could get that far and then duke it out over
> > > the rest.  Humanity would thank us profusely.
> > > And I like talking to the Libertarians because they constantly
> > > challenge me to defend my views - instead of pretending they agree
> > > with me like the PDA.  As a result I feel that my views are correct -
> > > but I am always looking for flaws.  And the Libertarians are also in
> > > favor of a state free of religious influence and for a state that does
> > > not interfere in sexual preference or speech in any way, shape or
> > > form.  Are not those much more important than the level of taxation or
> > > the size of government?  And anyway I believe in the inherent evil of
> > > the state and hope for its withering away in its present form.  The
> > > Dems do not like that idea at all.
> > > jw
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/9/06, Mike Heichman <mikeheichman at verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi John,
> > >>
> > >> What do you mean by "empire"?
> > >>
> > >> The reason why I ask this is because the Libertarians believe in limited
> > >> government. However, there idea of liberty means that they are OK with a
> > >> "SYSTEM" that may mean allowing a few to be billionaires while billions
> > >> of people live in misery.
> > >>
> > >> I do not believe that there vision is consistent with our values.
> > >>
> > >> For me, opposition to empire means to be opposed to the multiple systems
> > >> of domination and oppression.
> > >>
> > >> At the same time, I do agree that there is a wide area of common ground
> > >> for us to work collaboratively.
> > >>
> > >> Mike Heichman
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> John Walsh wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I think that our main job is to tell the whole truth with lots of
> > >> > documentation.
> > >> > The GRP makes no sense if the Dems are doing a fine job.
> > >> > For example, on the question of single-payer, the Dems have sold out
> > >> > their base and the entire electorate again and again.  Many have
> > >> > pretended to be allies but when push comes to shove, they have sided
> > >> > with the insurers - for example, Travaglini.  Rember Travaligni was
> > >> > the Senate author of the single-payer bill.  But once he got into
> > >> > leadership (partly thru the kind words of the single-payer folks), he
> > >> > turned against the bill that bore his name.
> > >> > Our job right now is to build party and movement, and that is why I
> > >> > emphasized party in that op-ed (NOT a letter to the editor) which by
> > >> > the way was carried in a paper in the TandG with a circulation of
> > >> > 100,000.
> > >> >
> > >> > And many of the "progressive" Dems, like Marzilli and Bonifaz, are
> > >> > far, far, far more loyal to party than principle.
> > >> >
> > >> > Two people mentioned to me that they thought that the GRP had gone
> > >> > easy on the Dems in this last round, and I think we lost one of those
> > >> > votes for that reason.  But of course that is all in one's perception.
> > >> >
> > >> > Actually I would prefer coalitions with Libertarians, were there any,
> > >> > since at the very least they oppose war and empire.
> > >> > jw
> > >> >
> > >> > On 11/9/06, Colby E. Peterson <saphron at verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Topic of discussion:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Let's say we win a seat in the state legislature at some point, which
> > >> >> is bound to happen.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> What are everyone's expectations for working with members of other
> > >> >> political parties? Be as general or specific as you'd like. I bring
> > >> >> this up because however unsavory we may find other political parties,
> > >> >> we will have to work with individual legislators in order to govern.
> > >> >> This may also mean compromise, which is getting some things and
> > >> >> sacrificing other things on all sides.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Thoughts?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> - Colby
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> >>
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> > >>
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> > >>
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> >
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