[statecom-discuss] Working with other political parties - open
thread
Mike Heichman
mikeheichman at verizon.net
Fri Nov 10 13:39:31 EST 2006
Hi Adam,
The attachment did not go through. Did you send a microsoft doc? If yes,
try a pdf.
Mike Heichman
Adam Sacks wrote:
>Supporting public education? Perhaps, because everyone is entitled to tools and knowledge for somehow getting along. But attached is another view - well worth reading - of what public education in this country is really about.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Adam
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: John Walsh <jvwalshmd at gmail.com>
>To: Discussion List for StateCom members <statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:14:43 AM
>Subject: Re: Re: [statecom-discuss] Working with other political parties - open thread
>
>First, I believe that you should read Antiwar.com - and The American
>Conservative. I think you will agree at least as often as you
>disagree with the latter.
>Second, one of the main planks of the Libertarian platform is to END
>CORPORATE WELFARE.
>Third, let us draw up the list: No war, no empire, troops home, close
>foreign bases, downsize the military industries, no police state laws,
>no domestic spy agencies, no corporate welfare. We both agree on
>those but the Dems (and Republicans) do not.
>Finally, I am confident that if we settle those issues, then we can
>argue about things like single-payer health care (which by the way is
>a non-statist solution, the more statist solution being a national
>health service like the NHS in UK or the VA here). I am confident
>that on these issues Greens will win. But that does not mean we give
>up a valuable ally in the struggle of the moment. Valuable in that
>they work from an ideology which appeals at this point to many
>Americans.
>jw
>p.s. The first woman to serve in Congresss was a Republican,
>essentially a Libertarian though. She voted against entry of the US
>into WWI. Both genuine Right and genuine Left were antiwar in those
>days.
>
>On 11/9/06, Mike Heichman <mikeheichman at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>John,
>>
>>At this stage in history, what would happen if "government would wither
>>away"?
>>
>>The real rulers of the planet are the very wealthy few, especially those
>>who rule our nation.
>>
>>My understanding (admittedly superficial) is that the libertarians are
>>for limited government in the political sense of the word. I am unaware
>>of anyway that they support controls over the corporations and the
>>wealthy elite.
>>
>>My guess is that we both support public education. What would happen to
>>our children if the libertarians got their way and the government would
>>no longer have this function? Where is the common ground?
>>
>>I believe that most people in the GRP oppose the multiple systems of
>>white, male, rich supremacy as well as the war on our ecosystem. Isn't
>>this also the empire that we oppose? Where is the common ground with
>>the Libertarians?
>>
>>Yes, there is common ground in important areas where we can better work
>>together. However, there are fundamental differences that I do not
>>believe are secondary to the vision of our party.
>>
>>Mike Heichman
>>
>>
>>
>>John Walsh wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Empire? You know it when you see it.
>>>At least the Libertarians, the genuine ones, are against war and
>>>empire. Imagine if we could get that far and then duke it out over
>>>the rest. Humanity would thank us profusely.
>>>And I like talking to the Libertarians because they constantly
>>>challenge me to defend my views - instead of pretending they agree
>>>with me like the PDA. As a result I feel that my views are correct -
>>>but I am always looking for flaws. And the Libertarians are also in
>>>favor of a state free of religious influence and for a state that does
>>>not interfere in sexual preference or speech in any way, shape or
>>>form. Are not those much more important than the level of taxation or
>>>the size of government? And anyway I believe in the inherent evil of
>>>the state and hope for its withering away in its present form. The
>>>Dems do not like that idea at all.
>>>jw
>>>
>>>
>>>On 11/9/06, Mike Heichman <mikeheichman at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi John,
>>>>
>>>>What do you mean by "empire"?
>>>>
>>>>The reason why I ask this is because the Libertarians believe in limited
>>>>government. However, there idea of liberty means that they are OK with a
>>>>"SYSTEM" that may mean allowing a few to be billionaires while billions
>>>>of people live in misery.
>>>>
>>>>I do not believe that there vision is consistent with our values.
>>>>
>>>>For me, opposition to empire means to be opposed to the multiple systems
>>>>of domination and oppression.
>>>>
>>>>At the same time, I do agree that there is a wide area of common ground
>>>>for us to work collaboratively.
>>>>
>>>>Mike Heichman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>John Walsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think that our main job is to tell the whole truth with lots of
>>>>>documentation.
>>>>>The GRP makes no sense if the Dems are doing a fine job.
>>>>>For example, on the question of single-payer, the Dems have sold out
>>>>>their base and the entire electorate again and again. Many have
>>>>>pretended to be allies but when push comes to shove, they have sided
>>>>>with the insurers - for example, Travaglini. Rember Travaligni was
>>>>>the Senate author of the single-payer bill. But once he got into
>>>>>leadership (partly thru the kind words of the single-payer folks), he
>>>>>turned against the bill that bore his name.
>>>>>Our job right now is to build party and movement, and that is why I
>>>>>emphasized party in that op-ed (NOT a letter to the editor) which by
>>>>>the way was carried in a paper in the TandG with a circulation of
>>>>>100,000.
>>>>>
>>>>>And many of the "progressive" Dems, like Marzilli and Bonifaz, are
>>>>>far, far, far more loyal to party than principle.
>>>>>
>>>>>Two people mentioned to me that they thought that the GRP had gone
>>>>>easy on the Dems in this last round, and I think we lost one of those
>>>>>votes for that reason. But of course that is all in one's perception.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually I would prefer coalitions with Libertarians, were there any,
>>>>>since at the very least they oppose war and empire.
>>>>>jw
>>>>>
>>>>>On 11/9/06, Colby E. Peterson <saphron at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Topic of discussion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Let's say we win a seat in the state legislature at some point, which
>>>>>>is bound to happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What are everyone's expectations for working with members of other
>>>>>>political parties? Be as general or specific as you'd like. I bring
>>>>>>this up because however unsavory we may find other political parties,
>>>>>>we will have to work with individual legislators in order to govern.
>>>>>>This may also mean compromise, which is getting some things and
>>>>>>sacrificing other things on all sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Colby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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