[statecom-discuss] [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider advisory ballotquestions?

Daniel Melnechuk isis at isisdesign.com
Wed Apr 2 16:34:08 EDT 2008 

In Waltham, the commercial is also higher than the residential.  
Waltham has one of the lowest residential rates in the commonwealth.  
Waltham's tax rate for commercial is based on occupancy as last i  
heard from a city councilor. So a vacant office building gets little  
to none taxes. And of course this years tax rate is based on the  
previous year's occupancy.

Dan

On Apr 2, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Merelice wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It's complex, so I'm not sure I'm saying this right, but here's my
> understanding for Brookline. The commercial tax rate is higher than
> the residential rate, but it is based partly on business income
> generated rather than on assessed property value. I'll try to learn
> more regarding what happens if the property is unoccupied.
>
> I think this could be a longer-range topic for possibly a statewide
> ballot question, or something that would apply town by town.
>
> Merelice
>
>
> On 4/2/08, Tom Flittie <tom.flittie at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was surprised to read that owners of vacant commercial property  
>> are exempt
>> from property taxes, so I contacted the Amherst tax assessor,  
>> David Burgess,
>> asking him for information.  Here's what he said:
>> *[**Burgess**, David**]  *All commercial property pays even if  
>> vacant.  A
>> property that is unable to be rented may have a reduced assessment  
>> if there
>> is a problem with the property that makes it hard to rent or due  
>> to economic
>> circumstances.  Commercial properties may be assessed using the  
>> income
>> approach and vacancy is a part of that calculation but the vacancy  
>> for a
>> type of property would be used not the actual vacancy.
>>
>> It's still mysterious to me, and I've sent follow-up questions to  
>> David, but
>> he says there are reductions under certain circumstances, not  
>> exemptions.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Steven G. Randall <
>> chanrandall24 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tax:
>>>
>>> From my point to view in Amherst, it would be hard to dispute the
>>> regressive
>>> nature of property tax--or it's plain largeness.  There seems to  
>>> be a
>>> question of fairness also.  Why is it that owners of commercial  
>>> retail
>>> space
>>> are exempt from paining property tax when their space is not  
>>> being rented
>>> to
>>> a business?  I can't stop paying property tax on my condo when  
>>> I'm on
>>> vacation?
>>>
>>> When I lived in Philadelphia, there was a city income tax on both
>>> residents
>>> and those employed in the city.  It was not a very high tax, at  
>>> the time,
>>> because so many were paying into it. A city/town income tax might  
>>> have
>>> some
>>> small impact on suburban sprawl as well as being more  
>>> progressive?  Should
>>> there also be a property tax, could this in theory be progressive
>>> also--with
>>> smaller properties below a certain valuation exempt?  Would this  
>>> persuade
>>> some not to build McMansions, the house version of the SUV?  Could a
>>> progressive property tax be designed that provided for tax  
>>> abatements for
>>> owners investing in solar and other green technologies?
>>>
>>> Steve Randall
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "BillCunningham" <etwee at earthlink.net>
>>> To: <Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com>; <platform at green-rainbow.org>;
>>> <statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider advisory
>>> ballotquestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yep, progressive income tax has to be taken up separately in  
>>>> large part
>>>> because of the constitutional factor.
>>>>
>>>> Local income tax isn't prohibited but I guess it would require a  
>>>> State
>>>> enabling act. To make enabling easier we would want a permanent  
>>>> local
>>>> option law in place. Ditto other local laws we favor, like  
>>>> police review
>>>> boards or rent control.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't want to add local income to local property tax and  
>>>> wind up
>>> with
>>>> both. But many cities and counties in the US already do just that.
>>>>
>>>> And for sure, we wouldn't want to impose it on localities, but  
>>>> rather
>>> make
>>>> it available at local option. One size doesn't fit all here.
>>>>
>>>> The property tax is a very large, regressive tax (I know some tax
>>> experts
>>>> dispute this. It believe it also encourages reckless development
>>> patterns
>>>> from a Green-Rainbow standpoint—Henry George notwithstanding.
>>>>
>>>> Thus I propose we should float the idea of a local option for  
>>>> replacing
>>>> the property tax with the income tax as the basis of local  
>>>> revenues. In
>>>> any case I doubt WE will effectively oppose the anti-income tax  
>>>> ballot
>>>> question by just saying "no."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2008 3:28 PM
>>>>> To: etwee at earthlink.net, platform at green-rainbow.org,
>>>>> statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider  
>>>>> advisory
>>>>> ballotquestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill - an actual progressive income tax, as you know would  
>>>>> require a
>>>>> consitutional amendment - is a local income tax prohibited in law
>>>>> somewhere?   I know
>>>>> that municipalities would freak out that people will move  
>>>>> across the the
>>>>> next
>>>>> town if they implimented such a thing - but obviously it would  
>>>>> be much
>>>>> fairer
>>>>> even for raising the same amounto f taxes... Grace
>>>>> In a message dated 3/31/08 3:16:43 PM, etwee at earthlink.net writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> We should definitely look at it. I would like to see a  
>>>>>> permanent local
>>>>>> option to ABOLISH residential property taxes with an income tax
>>>>>> substitution;
>>>>>> separately the Statewide income tax reform should be made  
>>>>>> progressive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2008 12:28 PM
>>>>>>> To: etwee at earthlink.net, Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com,
>>>>>>> platform at green-rainbow.org,
>>>>>> statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider  
>>>>>>> advisory
>>>>>> ballotquestions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually filed legislation to increase incoem tax and give  
>>>>>>> property
>>>>>>> tax
>>>>>>> relief so if we think that is the right formula there is  
>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>> sitting in a
>>>>>>> committee somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as for the initiative petition, any initiative petition that has
>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>> impacts has to be approved by the legislators after it is passed
>>>>>>> so,yeah,
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> would be relevant... Thanks, Grace
>>>>>>> In a message dated 3/31/08 11:48:57 AM, etwee at earthlink.net  
>>>>>>> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Grace,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The district advisory questions are in the form of  
>>>>>>>> "instructions"
>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> state legislators concerned. Should the binding tax question  
>>>>>>>> pass,
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> the legislators do about it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To counteract the income tax abolitionists, we need a tax  
>>>>>>>> program
>>> of
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> own. My favorite is abolition of the residential property  
>>>>>>>> tax and
>>> its
>>>>>>>> REPLACEMENT by a local income tax. (We have talked about  
>>>>>>>> this in
>>>>>> Cambridge electoral
>>>>>>>> campaigns.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the economy shakes down and particularly in housing,  
>>>>>>>> people will
>>>>>>>> bve
>>>>>>>> desperate for relief. The libertarians may get more traction  
>>>>>>>> for
>>> the
>>>>>> income tax
>>>>>>>> question under these conditions. We have to insist on the  
>>>>>>>> income
>>> tax
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> ever because of the crisis, renew the argument for making it
>>>>>>>> progressive
>>>>>>>> (the Dems abandoned that after 1994), and go after the  
>>>>>>>> property tax
>>>>>> instead. I
>>>>>>>> think that will make sense to a lot of people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linking in the property tax makes the connection with our the
>>> housing
>>>>>>>> priority, and may help us formulate a tax "instruction" or  
>>>>>>>> advisory
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> legislators could cope with....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2008 10:49 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: etwee at earthlink.net, Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com,
>>>>>> platform at green-rainbow.org,
>>>>>>>> statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider
>>> advisory
>>>>>>>> ballotquestions?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill - I know Merelice was seeking a question through our new
>>>>>>>>> coalition
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the sub-rpime lending crisis - but I am wondering about a  
>>>>>>>>> question
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>> the problems underlying this binding ballot question on a  
>>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>> repeal
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> income tax which will be on the November ballot statewide...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Grace
>>>>>>>>> In a message dated 3/31/08 10:16:20 AM,  
>>>>>>>>> etwee at earthlink.netwrites:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I could work on one, especially if it's about housing issues.
>>>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> be a buck-stops-here party contact for this project?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure the details have already been discussed, and  
>>>>>>>>>> correct me
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> wrong:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 200 valid signatures will place a question in a state rep
>>>>>>>>>> district,
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>> three times that for a state senate district. Sigs must be
>>>>>>>>>> submitted
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>>>>> election officials by the first week in July.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> After drafting a text it's a good idea to submit it to the  
>>>>>>>>>> AG's
>>>>>>>>>> office
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> vetting. Not required but fends off legal challenges. Two I
>>> worked
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> 2006
>>>>>>>>>> were submitted in early April. Vetting and rewrite might  
>>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>>> week
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> two.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The State limits advisory questions per district per  
>>>>>>>>>> election.
>>> No
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>> three can appear and they are placed as they are submitted to
>>> the
>>>>>>>> Elections
>>>>>>>>>> Division, Secertary of the Commonwealth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words, the sooner, the better.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Gracegrnrnbw at aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2008 9:44 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: platform at green-rainbow.org,
>>>>>>>>>>> statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Platform] Can the plaform committee consider  
>>>>>>>>>>> advisory
>>>>>> ballot
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> questions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Jill & John Andrews & whoever else might know about  
>>>>>>>>>>> this -
>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>>>>> apparent that some advisory questions are being formulated.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> as was decided at the last statecom meeting and Merelice has
>>>>>>>>>>> reminded
>>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>>>>>> advisory ballot questions content was to be created and  
>>>>>>>>>>> vetted
>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> platform
>>>>>>>>>>> committee.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> However, no language for questions has been posted or  
>>>>>>>>>>> discussed
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> serv.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can the possible topics please be posted so we can begin  
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> discussion?
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Grace
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> **************
>>>>>>>>>>> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
>>>>>>>>>>> on AOL Home.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (
>>> http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&
>>>>>>>>>> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Platform mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Platform at green-rainbow.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.green-rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/platform
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill Cunningham
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **************
>>>>>>>>> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
>>>>>>>>> Home.
>>>>>>>>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer? 
>>>>>>>>> video=15&
>>>>>>>>> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Cunningham
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Platform mailing list
>>>>>>>> Platform at green-rainbow.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.green-rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/platform
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **************
>>>>>>> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
>>>>>>> Home.
>>>>>>> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&
>>>>>>> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Cunningham
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **************
>>>>> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
>>>>> Home.
>>>>>      (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer? 
>>>>> video=15&
>>>>> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Cunningham
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Platform mailing list
>>>> Platform at green-rainbow.org
>>>> http://www.green-rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/platform
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> statecom-discuss mailing list
>>> statecom-discuss at green-rainbow.org
>>> http://www.green-rainbow.org/mailman/listinfo/statecom-discuss
>>>
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